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14/12/2021 2:34 pm
As Mr. Spock would say: Fascinating....
And yes, searching for other life being intelligent or not, should fascinate every one.
I have been a longtime member of the Center for UFO-studies, until they stopped publishing.
I have read many very low-volume scripts, been to many symposia and done some field work myself.
So you might think that I could be biased................and then there's the Fermi paradox..... 
Topic starter
14/12/2021 4:03 pm
@joop - Due to the enormity of the Universe, with billions of galaxies, each containing billions (and in some cases trillions) of stars, it would seem inconceivable that life only exists on one spec of grain in the cosmos. Still, we cannot conclude that life exists without evidence. And at this point, we have none. I'm looking forward to the day that we have conclusive proof of extraterrestrial life. Hopefully, the James Webb Telescope will assist us in that regard.
15/12/2021 12:58 am
Every time we look at the sun or stars, even with our naked eyes, we are looking back in time. That's a function of the speed of light, so it can range from a fairly short look back in time (minutes) to vast eons of millions of years.
As for life on places other than Earth. Yes. Without question. Even at the most basic level, as shown by the U.S. Viking Mars lander Labeled Release experiment by Dr. Gil Levin and his team and later separately on Earth with different evidence by a team of scientists at the NASA Johnson space center in Houston examining the Allan Hills 84001 and EETA79001 meteorites recovered in Antarctica and originating on the planet Mars. Of course, there is far more than just that evidence.
15/12/2021 3:23 pm
But you are both forgetting the most important thing and that's the human mind......
Not our behaviour, not our technical knowledge, not the way we treat each other, but the human mind.
The human mind will let us "see" and experience "extraterrestrial" things.
No matter how many rockets we launch, we are still very low on the developed-mind-scale.
We would need a transcendence of our spirit and mind to be able to make the jump.
Sounds mumbo-jumbo to you ?
Well, I have experienced some mind-boggling situations myself, which made me believe that it is all in our mind.
Your mind is letting you experience things,.......or not.
Topic starter
15/12/2021 4:15 pm
@mikedetorrice - No life has been found on any celestial object other than the planet Earth. There are theories but none found. On the day that it is discovered, it will be global news and the biggest story in the history of humankind.
Topic starter
15/12/2021 4:27 pm
@joop - Until we find life, I'm not sure we can say we are low on the developed mind scale. The ONLY comparison of intelligence we have access to is the life on the planet Earth. And without question, we are at the top of the mind-food chain scale in that regard.
15/12/2021 10:43 pm
@mikedetorrice - No life has been found on any celestial object other than the planet Earth. There are theories but none found. On the day that it is discovered, it will be global news and the biggest story in the history of humankind.
Umm, yes, NASA Viking probe scientists discovered powerful evidence of microbial life on the planet Mars in 1976. The principle investigator of the Viking Labeled Release life detection experiment was Dr. Gil Levin who recently passed away at 97. Here's a bit about him :
".......His innovative approaches to detecting microbial life led NASA to award him a series of contracts to develop methods for the detection of extraterrestrial life in spacecraft missions. Dr. Levin was appointed by NASA to a committee to recommend experiments for the Biosatellite Mission. NASA also asked him to serve on its Planetary Quarantine Advisory Panel. He then became Principal Investigator for a study of NASA’s still-pending Mars Sample Return Mission. Dr. Levin was a Team Member on the Goddard Space Flight Center’s IRIS Experiment flown aboard Mars Mariner 9 in 1971 to study the atmosphere of Mars. Based on his sensitive radioisotope microbial detection method, Dr. Levin proposed to NASA and was selected for the Viking Mission to Mars. He was designated Experimenter of the Viking Labeled Release life detection experiment which landed on Mars in 1976. The experiment got positive responses at both Viking landing sites. However, a consensus did not accept his results as proof of life. After years of study, in 1997 Dr. Levin concluded that the experiment had, indeed, detected life on the red planet, and published his conclusion. Subsequent findings of environmental conditions on Mars and research on organisms found in extreme environments on Earth have been consistent with his claim. Pursuing the life issue, Dr. Levin was a member of the Scientific Instrument Team for NASA’s experiment on the ill-fated Russian ’96 Mars Mission. He has since developed, proposed and published on a Chiral LR life detection experiment as a way to remove any doubt about the original Mars LR results. He has published over 150 papers in scientific and technology journals, and has been awarded more than 50 patents for his inventions. A Trustee Emeritus of the Johns Hopkins University, Dr. Levin is a member of its National Engineering Advisory Council, and has served on its National Library and National Industrial Advisory Councils. His awards include the Distinguished Alumnus Medal from Johns Hopkins, the Public Service Medal from NASA, the Newcomb-Cleveland Award from the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the IR-100 Award from Industrial Research Magazine. He is a Member of the Sigma Xi, is listed in Who’s Who in America, and is a member of the Cosmos Club of Washington, DC...." (The Space Show from Dr. David Livingston)
Dr. Levin's scientist son (Dr. Ron Levin) has confirmed the original microbial life finds of the LR Viking experiment.
And both Martian meteorites from Antarctica showed strong evidence for fossilized Martian life in the distant past which was announced by NASA head Daniel Goldin in a news conference on Aug 7, 1996. As the NY Times article reported at that time :
"Scientists studying a meteorite that fell to earth from Mars have identified organic compounds and certain minerals that they conclude 'are evidence for primitive life on early Mars.'
"The discovery of the first organic molecules ever seen in a Martian rock is being hailed as startling and compelling evidence that at least microbial life existed on Mars long ago, when the planet was warmer and wetter. The molecules found in the rock, which left Mars some 15 million years ago, are being described as the fossil trace of past biological activity.".......
https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nasa1.html
It is quite disingenuous to only believe scientists when they deny life elsewhere than just on Earth. There is, of course, far more evidence of extraterrestrial life than just this. Far more.
16/12/2021 1:10 am
This thread is light years over my head but I find it very interesting nonetheless; thank you! You have all done a lot of reading and research it seems.
On a much lighter note, I do agree that there is life on Mars; Ray Walston proved that. Btw...I'm sending each one of you a Johnny Quest ring for Christmas.
Marty Johnson and Marty Johnson reacted
Topic starter
16/12/2021 2:26 am
Sorry, but life has not been discovered anywhere in the universe other than Earth. Indeed, the current rovers on Mars are there to search for any evidence of life. So far, none has been confirmed. That includes Dr. Levin's.
The Scientific Method peer review is the most reliable test and the most universally accepted model of the scientific community to confirm discoveries. Dr. Levin's work has NOT been confirmed by peer review and has not emerged from the scrutiny with a consensus. Consequently, his hypothesis is not accepted by the Astrophysics community. At the end of the day, science has no confirmation of extraterrestrial life.
When life IS found it will be the most profound scientific discovery in the history of humankind. As a result, we will definitively hear of it as the entire world will be made aware. It will be momentous! To that end, I'm very much hoping extraterrestrial life will be discovered in my lifetime.
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/in-memoriam-dr-gil-levin/
16/12/2021 2:17 pm
Until we seriously consider the phrase "man has been created in Gods image", we will never, ever hear of intelligent life existing somewhere out-side this planet.
When we do hear about it, our society will come crashing down as religion still has a huge impact on our life.
Topic starter
16/12/2021 3:40 pm
@joop - I suspect once extraterrestrial life is discovered the event will cause a great reconsideration in a wide array of thinking.
17/12/2021 12:44 am
Marty, Mike, very interesting information and opinion gentlemen, thank you.
Marty Johnson and Marty Johnson reacted
17/12/2021 4:37 pm
"Look what I found; it 'fell off' Mars 15 milloin years ago and wandered the Solar System until it landed on Earth. It proves there's life on Mars!"
"Really? 15 million? And it didn't burn up entering Earth atmosphere???"
David Vandermeer
Corinth, Texas
17/12/2021 6:23 pm
Sorry, but life has not been discovered anywhere in the universe other than Earth. Indeed, the current rovers on Mars are there to search for any evidence of life. So far, none has been confirmed. That includes Dr. Levin's.
The Scientific Method peer review is the most reliable test and the most universally accepted model of the scientific community to confirm discoveries. Dr. Levin's work has NOT been confirmed by peer review and has not emerged from the scrutiny with a consensus. Consequently, his hypothesis is not accepted by the Astrophysics community. At the end of the day, science has no confirmation of extraterrestrial life.
When life IS found it will be the most profound scientific discovery in the history of humankind. As a result, we will definitively hear of it as the entire world will be made aware. It will be momentous! To that end, I'm very much hoping extraterrestrial life will be discovered in my lifetime.
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/in-memoriam-dr-gil-levin/
Unfortunately, Marlowe, you seem to think science is above reproach and beyond politics.
Wrong.
Science is not always "real",as some people tout, as there are sadly a number of instances where personal, financial, political and "national security" issues were the modus operandi ........ not truth.
The USAF explained one UFO sighting as simply a "bird with four lights". Another was 'just' twinkling stars from a constellation. (that was not visible above the horizon at that time at all). How about 20 minute "ball lightning' ? Or meteors making several right-angle turns ? Etc, etc. NASA explained a certain feature on Mars as "a trick of light and shadow" which they said was proved by another "disconfirming" photo they took the very next orbit that showed nothing unusual. Except ...... the next orbit didn't go over the particular target. And the next orbit that actually DID go over the target, it was in total darkness. Finally, 20 years later they grudgingly admitted they had never taken the "disconfirming" photo at all. They lied.
We largely have geologists looking at the photos we take of and on Mars, the moon and other solar system objects. So they will tend to see just "rocks" and geology. (it's good job security to see just this, too) Yep there ARE plenty of rocks there. But there is MUCH more and we should have archeologists, structural engineers, historians, architects, and others officially examining these images.
Here's an article featuring an astronomer who is willing to put forth a theory that normally might brand him as an outcast. But he points out he is the retiring head of Harvard's Astronomy Department and he now has the ability to get away with such heretic notions :
Artificial interstellar probe ?
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