Great post! Thanks, Charles.
John Kuvakas
Warrenton, VA
@jkuvakas It's an interesting story that covers a few different matters, so I hope I've done it justice.
This is a very interesting and informative post Charles. While development began pre-war, I am amazed that such a development continued to take place during the early period of WWII. It certainly was not taking place in Britain or Germany in the same period. All domestic efforts had stopped, just military and war work. I have to think that this work was unofficial and kept secret from the Italian government at that time. I wonder. How they managed to get the supplies needed for construction. This Alfa Romeo Type 163 is certainly pretty. I don’t know anything about postwar success or completion. Thanks Charles for this.
@david-green This is an incredibly interesting point David. I have studied the war period: design and production for a while, and the truth is very different from the given narrative. In Germany, domestic car production continued into 1942 during which time Goebbels was pressing for what he called 'total war' by which he meant the civilian population. Whereas Hitler did not want the population to feel the effects of the war. He was pressing to have Paris couture moved to Vienna during the war, whilst Lucien Lelong head of La Chambre Syndical successfully fought against the move. Some of the most spectacular bespoke furniture was also produced in the early part of the war and certain very famous Delahaye 135 bodies were produced for German officers even towards the war's end - notably Franay's and Chapron's 135 Delahaye and I remain convinced that Figoni et Falaschi's La Glaoui began life during the war. There are some of Alfa Romeos 6C 2500 from 1943 by Bertone. According to Dalton's Rolls Royce - The Elegance Continues, the last Phantom III were delivered in 1941, (Britain needed U.S. hard currency.
Good Points Charles. I did know about fashions continuing and Vienna replacing Paris for at least a time after May 1940. Those Rolls Royce sales to the USA were I think, coach builder cars whose chassis were built by Rolls Royce prior to 1940. I know that they converted to exclusively war production late in 1939. Weren’t the Delahaye and Bertone Alfas custom shop models based on prewar chassis also?
What struck me with the Type 163 is that it is primarily a race car. Whatever, I certainly agree that a lot of none war activities continued in Europe for some time after war was declared.
Thanks for this discussion Charles and your excellent presentation here. It encourages me to do some more research.
@david-green David, this is indeed a rewarding topic of discussion and you give me pause to think. Lawrence Dalton's books which cover almost every Rolls Royce produced has a chapter on each chassis type and at the end of the Chapter a chart listing each Chassis and its delivery date. I am pretty sure those delivery dates are for the chassis But will have to look further into it (I do not have my books with me). Certainly official histories of WWII - British included - need to be taken with a huge grain of salt. I agree all the Delahaye I mentioned have come from coach builders so there were evidently quite a few stock 135 chassis still around in 1944! However I post below a 1942 Renault prototype 4CV along with an image of 1940 and 1941 Pininfarina 6C 2500 a 1940 Ferrari 815 (though of course Italy entered the war in June 1940, a 1941 BMW and 1941/42 ZILs and Mercedes. When we search through Alfa Romeo 6C 2500s we find lot dating from the war years and I cannot help but think Italy must have adopted the same view as Germany, in keeping the economy going - if you had the money, the cars were available. Lastly, the Simca 8 was in production throughout the war. As you say, there's much to research and answers are not easily found.
A superb background and history of these motorcars ! We certainly see a great variety of automobiles displayed. During WWII Packard in the U.S. built a fine licensed version of the Roll-Royce Merlin V-1650 aero-engine for the P-51 Mustang and other airplanes.
Thanks, Charles, for the detailed post and follow-up posts. Fascinating to read about the history of these Alfas. I doubt the 163 was ever built and if it was, it was certainly scrapped. I assume you read the various responses in the AlfaBB about it? https://www.alfabb.com/threads/tipo-163-16c.37180/
The Museo does have Ricart's mid-engine race car from 1940, the 512, with his 12-cylinder boxer engine!
I do have the Autocult of that one, but still miss the 163 lozenge!
@karl Hi Karl, many thanks for your kind remarks and also the AlfaBB link, which in fact is new to me. I shall follow the thread with interest.
Your 512 is a stunning looking vehicle - it really looks as if it means business - and the Autocult version looks similarly dynamic. Regarding the Autostile163, there is one available presently for what I regard as silly money (but in case you're interested I'll post the link on your personal page here. and there is another site which I'm having problems linking to, that may also have un un-built kit available, but this last is doubtful). Cheers!
Thanks Charles and Karl. Lots of catch up reading for me to do after this interesting post.
@charles-rockett Thanks for the sales links. I saw the high $$$ one for sale in the US right after I read your post! I could hire a pro kit builder for cheaper, I think!
@charles-rockett Thanks for the sales links. I saw the high $$$ one for sale in the US right after I read your post! I could hire a pro kit builder for cheaper, I think!
They can't be that rare $$$ !!! One is bound to appear boxed or unboxed; built or kit form. Another place for this last, is scalemates.com but you'd know how they work better than I.
@mg-harv Hello Harv' I'm sure you're right that this likely inspired the 163 and I have wondered if this is the first mid-engined race car? I saw one of the Autostile versions of this, earlier this year, rendered in light blue metallic. And I seem to remember it had the three piece windshield - which I believe was a later addition to the car. In 1946 one of the Jankovitch brothers escaped from Yugoslavia at speed in this car, under fire from border guards.























