I've said it before...

Sure, just what we need...

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/photos-suspects-violent-malba-queens-car-meetup

Posted by: @chris

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@ed-davis Even as a kid, growing up in America, it never made sense to me why anyone would drive a foreign car.    I've never owned one.

Well, you logic makes sense.  I never thought about buying Foreign cars either until the late 1980's.  I'd gotten tired of buying American GM, Chrysler, and Ford brands and having nothing but problems with them.  And I've always bought NEW cars.  Since 1988, I've only owned Foreign cars and I've been driving problem free.  Foreign cars have proven to be better quality.  I won't go back!

@georgeschire I can't argue with that....because I buy only American, I've learned to purchase at least 10-year bumper to bumper or lifetime warrantees.  Only then, can I enjoy the vehicle.   🙄 🙄

I don't think it's important to like the same cars as younger folks. We can't even get an overall consensus on what we like in John's daily polls, or what color interior we like. Those disagreements, expressed with some respect for those who see things differently, help us learn and grow together. Hearing different perspectives and affinities enriches us all. 

But it doesn't help when we openly criticize another group for their likes or stereotype them as a bunch of unknowing, clueless people. It certainly does nothing to keep the forums vital and welcoming. When I read something like, "The 57 Bulgemobile is the ugliest piece of crap ever made." Or, "Only an idiot would buy that car." Or, "Young people are clueless." I have to wonder how many people read that and think, "They're talking about me." Do you think that individual is encouraged to post here?

It would be more productive and far safer to be more careful and considerate of other opinions. It's Ok not to like a design or a type of car. We all have our preferences. But, "I personally don't buy Japanese cars." Or, "I never cared much for that design," may help us to grow and stay alive as a forum. 

Several years ago, someone posted a photo of a customized car. It was placed there by the owner and builder. It was his pride and joy, and he thought it would be a good way to show he loved cars as much as we all do. He had emailed me and asked if I thought the forums were a safe place. I told him they were. He was looking for a community to share his interest in cars and scale models with. The first few reactions were along the lines of, "How hideous," and "Yuck." The owner emailed me saying, "You were wrong." When I put up a post similar to this thread, I got bombarded with comments about freedom of speech and the right to share your opinion. Those comments missed the point. We are free to share our opinion. We should do so. But we should not feel free to judge someone else's.

@jkuvakas  I can't argue with anything you mentioned, they're all valid an insightful remarks.   IMO, many of us here are "old & crusty."   Things will be said with little regard of consequence.   Could that expedite our demise?    Well, it won't slow it down.... that's for sure.   🤨 🤨

Posted by: @jkuvakas

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I don't think it's important to like the same cars as younger folks. We can't even get an overall consensus on what we like in John's daily polls, or what color interior we like. Those disagreements, expressed with some respect for those who see things differently, help us learn and grow together. Hearing different perspectives and affinities enriches us all. 

But it doesn't help when we openly criticize another group for their likes or stereotype them as a bunch of unknowing, clueless people. It certainly does nothing to keep the forums vital and welcoming. When I read something like, "The 57 Bulgemobile is the ugliest piece of crap ever made." Or, "Only an idiot would buy that car." Or, "Young people are clueless." I have to wonder how many people read that and think, "They're talking about me." Do you think that individual is encouraged to post here?

It would be more productive and far safer to be more careful and considerate of other opinions. It's Ok not to like a design or a type of car. We all have our preferences. But, "I personally don't buy Japanese cars." Or, "I never cared much for that design," may help us to grow and stay alive as a forum. 

Several years ago, someone posted a photo of a customized car. It was placed there by the owner and builder. It was his pride and joy, and he thought it would be a good way to show he loved cars as much as we all do. He had emailed me and asked if I thought the forums were a safe place. I told him they were. He was looking for a community to share his interest in cars and scale models with. The first few reactions were along the lines of, "How hideous," and "Yuck." The owner emailed me saying, "You were wrong." When I put up a post similar to this thread, I got bombarded with comments about freedom of speech and the right to share your opinion. Those comments missed the point. We are free to share our opinion. We should do so. But we should not feel free to judge someone else's.

As always John, great words and sage advice.  What scares me though, is that all of us are no longer supposed to "have opinions" like "that is one ugly car" and other such comments, thus somehow reducing anyone's right to have "their opinions".  We then no longer have spirited conversations. 

For example the daily "Which One?" becomes only a vote for one car over the other.  We're only looking at votes.  What makes those "Which One?" photos fun to look at, is to share all our good, bad, and ugly likes or dislikes about them.  In the end, all it is, is "ones opinion" and if everyone is going to be soft-skinned and take offense at every comment that doesn't agree with "their opinion", then the Forum becomes no fun to visit. 

I remember a few years back, there was a member who took offense towards my comment that "a car was ugly".  When I tried to explain to him that "it was ugly to my eyes", I was told I was being rude.  However, this same member had no issues when a car was said to "be beautiful". 

Certainly everyone has a their own definition of "ugly" and "beautiful", but to be upset at an "ugly" comment and not a "beautiful" comment, doesn't make any sense.  And if we have to say every car is beautiful to make everyone happy here, there will never be any conversation, so why be here at all?  

I enjoy the conversation about "American" cars. What are they? The Accord and Camry that are the most American in that they're made here with our suppliers and labor, or the various Chevies and Fords made in Mexico, Korea, or even China (see Buick and Lincoln)?

Anyway, whatever floats your boat is my attitude.

@georgeschire, what I actually said was, "It's Ok to have an opinion," and "We should share our opinion." There's a difference between spirited dialogue and judgmentalism or self-righteousness. I think what you're missing here is that there is a huge difference for a lot of our readers between "That's ugly" and "I think that's ugly." The first one is not an opinion. It pretends to state a fact. It puts the poster in a position that seems superior to anyone who likes that car. One shuts down any further comment. The other can encourage it. We can have the opinion that the current generation is going down the drain and has no interest in cars. But when we state it as a reality, the facts seem to contradict that statement and will immediately exclude any young person who loves cars. Sometimes, some folks use "They're just too sensitive" to justify rudeness. I hope we can avoid that. 

It can make the forum no fun to visit. 

@chris, well said. Thank you.

Posted by: @ed-glorius

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"The Accord and Camry that are the most American in that they're made here with our suppliers and labor...."

They have American content, but they're NOT American.    The BIG money leaves the U.S. and enriches Japan.     When Buick sells & manufactures cars in China of course the local economy benefits, however, it strengthens GM & the U.S., not China.    The profits come back home.

Sadly, at the rate we're going... America may have one or two car companies left by 2070. 

Posted by: @jkuvakas

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@georgeschire, what I actually said was, "It's Ok to have an opinion," and "We should share our opinion." There's a difference between spirited dialogue and judgmentalism or self-righteousness. I think what you're missing here is that there is a huge difference for a lot of our readers between "That's ugly" and "I think that's ugly." The first one is not an opinion. It pretends to state a fact. It puts the poster in a position that seems superior to anyone who likes that car. One shuts down any further comment. The other can encourage it. We can have the opinion that the current generation is going down the drain and has no interest in cars. But when we state it as a reality, the facts seem to contradict that statement and will immediately exclude any young person who loves cars. Sometimes, some folks use "They're just too sensitive" to justify rudeness. I hope we can avoid that. 

It can make the forum no fun to visit. 

@chris Interesting approach but to me, irritating. No way would this make me want to buy the product. So the product has wipers, turn signals, wheel covers and horns   duh.

Thanksgiving weekend some friends who live in NYC were in town along with their daughter who was a recent college graduate and 21 years of age. Having grown up in Manhattan, she admitted that cars were something she had never thought about much. Standing in my garage she was in awe studying my 61 Corvette, 63 Thunderbird Sports Roadster and 55 Imperial. She was amazed by all of the styling details such as the side coves on the Vette, the tonneau cover on the T-Bird and the taillights on the Imperial. I asked her if she would like a ride in one of the cars and she picked the T-Bird. During the ride she made the comment that if cars today had all of the individual styling of these older cars young people might become more interested in older cars. I can't say that she was sold on the older cars but she was certainly more aware of them. At car shows I always take the opportunity to invite folks to sit in my cars to have their picture taken. It's a great way to start a conversation about the various features the cars have such as the swing away steering wheel on the T-Bird or the dash mounted gear shift lever on the Imperial, etc. I don't know if I have converted young people to the old car hobby but it's a start

@bob-jackman 

Awesome account Bob! And I LOVE your idea of having people sit in the cars for a photograph. That's what we need - Bless you Bob - Lead on sir!

Posted by: @sizedoesmatter

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Posted by: @jkuvakas

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@georgeschire, what I actually said was, "It's Ok to have an opinion," and "We should share our opinion." There's a difference between spirited dialogue and judgmentalism or self-righteousness. I think what you're missing here is that there is a huge difference for a lot of our readers between "That's ugly" and "I think that's ugly." The first one is not an opinion. It pretends to state a fact. It puts the poster in a position that seems superior to anyone who likes that car. One shuts down any further comment. The other can encourage it. We can have the opinion that the current generation is going down the drain and has no interest in cars. But when we state it as a reality, the facts seem to contradict that statement and will immediately exclude any young person who loves cars. Sometimes, some folks use "They're just too sensitive" to justify rudeness. I hope we can avoid that. 

It can make the forum no fun to visit. 

Well stated. Ugly is an ugly word. Its use comes across as rude, harsh and mean-spirited and reflects on the character of the person that uses it.

 

John, I can't speak for others, but I assure you that I've never used the term "They're just too sensitive" to justify rudeness.    

As a society though, I think we've gotten to the point where people find reasons to be offended and angry.  I remember times when I'd say "Good morning" to co-workers, and they'd reply, "What's good about it?".  Well this just in...every morning is a good morning, if one wants' it to be. 

I have coffee every morning and say a few prayers to start my day, along with a devotional verse.  I make it a "Good morning". 

And I'll further add that when my wife was suffering from Cancer during 2020 and 2021 and we were also dealing with COVID, it was an awful time for us (and for everyone).  But I still got up every morning and said it was a "Good morning".  If one wants to think negative, they will be negative, while if they think positive, things really aren't as bad as they choose to make them. 

I used to have this on my computer screen at work, "Attitudes Are Contagious, Is Yours Worth Catching?".